Originally Posted by Errant Venture

Thanks for proving you know absolutely nothing about high-end GvG and why it was so different from every other game out there xD

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Energy management: removing it does simplify the game, but they're adding in a ton of focus on positioning. Positioning was always important, but not nearly as much as it looks like it's going to be in GW2. Something has to give. I still think that if they take some of the community suggestions about energy management it'd make a world of difference in terms of strategy.

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Secondary professions: Lulz, you're citing this as something that made GW1 PvP good? Secondary profession abuse was the single biggest contributing factor to gimmicks, period. Hexway, spiritway, Thumpers, scythe sins, scythe rangers, R/P, R/A, fast cast water mesmers, etc, etc, etc. And you're going to sit there and tell me how it's going to hurt PvP for it to be removed? F***, it's what people have been asking for in GW1 for years, to nerf everything so secondary abuse is impossible.

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Diverse skill choices: First off, meta was king; I'd be willing to wager that three quarters of the skills were never used in a high end PvP match in any given meta, and of the rest only a portion were used regularly at any one time. Second, traits. They open up a huge amount of diversity, just by being able to tweak your skills alone. Third, the ability to mix and match weapon sets to bring different sets of skills to the table is another huge area that you can expand, an area that simply did not exist in GW1.

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Dedicated healers: Clearly can't be all that integral to balanced PvP, since every other game has it and it doesn't make them any more balanced. The game is balanced around monks, they are the single most important class in the game, and that is blatantly unhealthy. No class should be THAT vital. I challenge you to give me one good reason that a team should be such a house of cards that taking out a monk = GG wipe.

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Prots: Are you kidding me? They've specifically said that we're getting prots. Hell, blind alone acts more like a prot now (only works on one attack, use it wisely, don't spam it on recharge). We have half of the classes revealed, and we don't even have a fraction of all of the skills. I'm taking their word, thanks; beats throwing my hands in the air and going "zomg they don't have any prot!!!"

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Body blocks: I'm happy that rubber banding is dying, thanks. No more free snares either; you want to snare someone, bring a profession with snares. Shocking, I know.

Originally Posted by Skyy High

"Bull's Strike is always the example everyone brings up when they talk about "good conditionals". There's a reason for that: it's the most skill-intensive to land consistently. Of course, it's still not really all that skill-intensive, since there's no penalty for missing; you could just spam it on recharge and you'll get a free KD on top of some +damage eventually."

Originally Posted by Skyy High

So...yeah, what were you saying about "shit PvP" again? Oh, right, you think the game with the devs who have actually claimed that traditional MMO design is the holy grail, and they're just trying to perfect it (with some VO work on top, of course!). And you expect this new game to be different from every other game that's been built that way...why, exactly? In other words: which takes more faith, to believe that the devs who have outright stated they want to fix everything that's wrong with the genre might end up making something better, or to believe that the devs who think everything is hunky-dory with the genre might stumble into some PvP that's magically better than anything we've seen in every other game before it?

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

Removing e-management is probably the worst idea if you want balanced PvP, but you seem to recognize that, so lets move on.

Originally Posted by own age myname

1. Sure, Anet may not have balanced it correctly. But guess what's been a major factor in gimmicks since the dawn of GW1's PvP? Secondary Professions. I don't care who you are, it's near impossible to balance. Secondary profs have always been the root of GW1's unbalanced problems.

2. Mmmm, I wonder how FPS games have survived. (in case you didn't know, Anet is moving towards that type of gameplay in PvP)

3. Not really. Protection is a synonym of defense. Hell, Aegis is another word for defense. When Anet themselves have even stated Prots will return, I think I will trust that (sorry no source, but I'm 100% positive they have said it).

4. And GW2 will continue on GW1's footing: Being different from traditional MMOs in terms of PvP. We don't even know that much as of now, but we do know that is different then GW1 or any other MMO for that matter. Like I said earlier, GW2 is going towards more of a FPS feel to it's PvP. That is automatically different then any MMO I can think of off the top of my head...

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

I cut out the things we agreed on, no sense leaving them in.

1. We seem to agree that imbalance is what makes secondary prof's bad. Mending touch on a ranger = utility, is good. RaO with a hammer = imbalanced, is bad.

2. FPS and RPG are very different. FPS is mostly twitch. RPG is mostly RTS. These are completely different styles of games.

3. Defense is team wide, within a certain area or sometimes self-directed. Prot is deliberately and actively preventing damage. Aegis is defense; Guardian is prot. Ward foes is defense; spirit bond on a spike is prot.

4. basically see #2.

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

I aint buying a wow copy...few things are different but its still wow based

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

First, it's nice to have an actual coherent discussion on here; it can be rare.

What I mean by the difference between prot and defense is that prot is more direct. Defense would be like if you're hiding behind a wall and the wall gets hit with arrows. Prot would be like if you're holding a shield and move that shield to block an arrow in flight; it's deliberate and specific. Yes, guardian and old school aegis will both block attacks. The difference is old-school aegis is set-it-and-forget-it. It's not there to block attacks for any specific person, it's just a wall. Guardian is used to deliberately block attacks directed at a specific person, it's like throwing a shield in front of someone to protect them from an arrow flying at them. I hope that made a little more sense.

I'm adamant about healing, because it's a great mechanic. Without healing, the game becomes very one-dimensional. If there were no healing, hexers with speed buffs would most likely win every map.

Not being a fps-person myself, it's a bit difficult for me to express what I want to say there. It would be like if I tried to relate GW to Nascar. I don't have the expertise in the second area to speak well about it, so I'm going to take a pass on the fps-rpg thing.

Originally Posted by Ranger Brummy

Does anyone get the feeling that the game is a rehash of Aion?
The game looks pretty much identical, and it sucked so monumentally as well because of the same reasons GW1 is bad. Rampant bottery, ignorant devs who only ever act too-late and the fact its and NCSoft game, means it'll be bad.
This has probably been said before but I haven't bothered to read the thread.
I fear the same for GW2 so I don't think I'll be buying it.

Originally Posted by Ranger Brummy

Does anyone get the feeling that the game is a rehash of Aion?
The game looks pretty much identical, and it sucked so monumentally as well because of the same reasons GW1 is bad. Rampant bottery, ignorant devs who only ever act too-late and the fact its and NCSoft game, means it'll be bad.
This has probably been said before but I haven't bothered to read the thread.
I fear the same for GW2 so I don't think I'll be buying it.

Originally Posted by Ranger Brummy

Does anyone get the feeling that the game is a rehash of Aion?
The game looks pretty much identical, and it sucked so monumentally as well because of the same reasons GW1 is bad. Rampant bottery, ignorant devs who only ever act too-late and the fact its and NCSoft game, means it'll be bad.
This has probably been said before but I haven't bothered to read the thread.
I fear the same for GW2 so I don't think I'll be buying it.

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

Same with Tera online, looks like a copy of AION aswell, just look at that tiny class you can play, which you can be a panda, looks so much like AION. Just that the chicks looks the worst I've ever seen, I like good armor but jeeze, gstring and the typical super tiny pantie with a bra armor, no thank >.<